In this sophomore entry into our ‘SUB-MERGING’ column, Jack sat with the Hollow Man himself, Alex Rushfirth, to discuss his creative journey, football, and his emphatic love of emojis.
“I love the feeling of sitting down at a piano or a guitar or whatever and it being like a blank page and just going off an discovering the song, and that’s never gotten old. And I can’t stop doing it.“
–Alex Rushfirth
I was introduced to the work of Alex Rushfirth back in April, appearing before me as a Spotify link, accompanied by the message, “This sounds like something you’d write”. Though I don’t not entirely agree, I considered it high praise as the track that my homie had linked me was ‘Princess Nokofia’. It’s a bedroom folk soul wrencher. It pulls the same emotional levers that the 2010s sad folk bedroom acts (Crywank; Flatsound) did for me as a teenager, but thematically and aesthetically, Rushfirth stikes something which resonates with me as a fledgling adult. His music comes from somewhere more abstract, transcendental even. Across the ‘Untitled’ album from which ‘Princess Nokofia’ derives, the lyrics map out an uneasy journey from pain, alienation and disconnection, to reformation, renihilation and religious jubilation, funnelled through an uncanny digital lens.
Throughout our conversation it became clear to me that, much like the album cover for ‘Untitled’, Alex is a pretty transparent guy. He took his time with responses and was never anything but completely genuine in his responses, which were refreshingly passionate and consistently thoughtful. Hopefully Alex’s character comes across within the following transcript, but words are deceitful and maybe a wall of emojis would have done a better job.
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Jack:
If I google you, the first video that always comes up is this one from the University of York TV studios from 2018. You’re fresh faced, smart-casually suited. You’re singing a song about not being a stalker, and you end it with a fantastic Kubrick stare into the camera.
With that as our temporal anchoring point, how have you moved on creatively since then?
Alex:
“I’m glad that that is the first thing that anyone who Googles me sees. The funny thing is that video was filmed in 2015. Its old. That track was on the first record I put out.
Jack:
Is that the one that came out in 2014?
Alex:
Yes. ‘Stalker song’. At university I was involved in writing plays and doing comedy and stuff like that. I did this ‘Stalker Song’ as a sort of comedy bit on stage and somebody with a camera was like ‘Can you do it for our TV project’, so I got it filmed properly.
So now…[sighs] the amount of time that I’ve been doing it…Oh dear me… I’m answering this question really badly because I’ve had to think about my life.
Jack
[Laughs] I was worried this question might do that.
Alex
I don’t mind, it’s funny. Also, I just want to preface this. Online, I seem like I’m very obtuse, maybe. Or kind of weird or not a normal person- like I’m a robot or something, or an AI. And uh, I’m shattering that here by drinking a beer and being completely incoherent.
Jack
At you own pace, honestly. Its, uh, emergent.
Alex
So basically, I started out as a producer. [I was] in bands when I was a teenager and producing other band’s music. And that’s what I wanted to do really- produce other people’s music; write with other people. So, a lot of [my] earlier work was from a production standpoint. Working on Logic and crafting these complex arrangements of things. The vibe and the arrangement were the most important thing for me. The quality of the recording in the early work, that was the first thing that was on my mind, then the music, then the lyrics were third. Whereas now, it’s like, the opposite [laughs].
And I think that’s the change really. Now I think of myself more as a writer, trying to be a storyteller firrrrst, maybe? And thinking of songwriting and the pop songs thing being a form of writing. So that’s where I’m seeing it at the minute, and I think that’s how it’s changed.
I write a lot and I record a lot, and not that much of it is even out.
Jack
Would you ever do, like an ‘unreleased’ album and it’s like a quadruple disc project?
Alex
The last album I did, the ‘Untitled’ album. That’s a condensed version of the 5 Eps that were put out before it, which was a 30-track thing. And there was probably 75 songs recorded for it. And I got it into 30, and I got it to 10.
Jack
So, it seems to me that there’s a fair amount of curation and considering audience response within your work. Is that fair to say?
Alex
I think there’s something beautiful about the curation of a work and creating a context. So, when you’re putting things into the record, naming the record and deciding an art style specifically for a record, and you know each of the tracks have an artwork and a coherent theme, that’s the thing that’s most important to me, I think. Making a release feel like its own coherent piece. That’s the reason why I don’t just spam stuff all the time. Making something feel coherent over a longer time period. That’s the thing that’s difficult. And also, worthy of people’s time. I don’t want to release an album of half-baked stuff that puts people off listening to the next lot of songs that I think are really good.
Since the last record I’ve kind of got maybe three or four EPs or albums that are coherent pieces of work, but I’ve not decided which one is going to go out. It’s hard, it’s really hard. And I think it’s the job of an artist to produce good work [laughs]- and show good work. But I write terrible songs. Bad songs. Loads of songs. And I try to only show the good ones.
I mean this is just how I’m feeling right now. This could completely change. After this call I could be like, “What am I doing” and just dump everything. All of the [EPS/Albums] are on my Soundcloud, they’re all there.
Jack
Someone’s just gotta hit the button.
Alex
I dunno, how does it come across to you? It’s not primarily ideological. It’s strange.
Jack
I guess its artistic praxis.
I think every artist decides what they want their art to do for themselves. I think the displaying of the art is a part of its creation. I consider a good artist is someone who can do the thing they intended to do all along, successfully. I guess knowing what the telos, or the use of thing that your making is, is what makes a good artist. But then that’s not very artful, but then that’s just one philosophical approach to art- some people just make stuff.
Alex
I appreciate the way that you’re putting it there. I think that’s fine. I think of it as being a craft to a certain degree. You’ve got to put the work in. Not everything is just pure inspiration. But, obviously the songs I’m most proud of are the ones I’ve had less to do because they’re just good; they have been moments of inspiration. But in order to get in that place where you can channel those songs you have to be competent.
Jack
Would you consider yourself a pop artist?
Alex
I guess I’m making pop songs. But I don’t think I’m a great pop artist. I started creating songs before Facebook was a thing. So, the idea of recording stuff, that was the thing. But being a pop artist now, you have to be engaged with every other thing. That’s fine, but I don’t know if I’m quite as comfortable with doing the other things. Like- y’know the video- I don’t mind being filmed but I dunno if I feel fully comfortable with that. I just like writing songs and producing songs.
I love the feeling of sitting down at a piano or a guitar or whatever and it being like a blank page and just going off an discovering the song, and that’s never gotten old. And I can’t stop doing it. And I’m sure that so many other people feel the same way. The idea of even releasing stuff or thinking of yourself an artist’, that’s secondary, that’s some narrative you put onto it.
Anyway… that’s that…its quite romantic isn’t it?
Jack
What is your most quoted Vine/Tiktok?
Alex
I’m not familiar with Tiktok.
My favourite Vine is this kid singing ‘Please Mister Postman’ and there’s this old man doing backing vocals. Did you ever see that? It was that, but like a remix of that, where the old man turns into an alien, and it turns into an X-Files meme. That’s really old now, but there’s something really magical and disposable about that that I liked.
But it’s not quotable. It’s something that lives in me.
I just stay away from social media things, because years ago when I had Twitter all the time all [I’d] be thinking was “Funny”, or “funny Tweet”. My mind became a Tweet factory. And I don’t want that. I want to have thoughts about things, or no thoughts ideally, really.
Jack
That links into my next question: What is your relationship with digital culture? Because despite your distance from it, it plays a fairly large part in your aesthetics- like the emojis and stuff.
Alex
Yeah…the Hollow Man art, with the checkerboard… I didn’t have Instagram for a few years so I didn’t have photos of myself online. So, I thought that for the art I would put photos of me that, if I had Instagram, would be on the Instagram [laughs]. And then I was creating these Photoshop collages of photos of me from that day or a picture of something I was thinking about. Then, you know that white and grey checkerboard transparency thing on Photoshop? When I saw that I was like, ‘Yeah this is it’. And then that was the aesthetic for like a year of making. So, when I had finished the track and saved it, I wouldn’t even stop, I’d do the art then and there and I did that for 75 tracks. Which is interesting, it’s the idea of the song being like an Instagram post. Because if you don’t have social media that’s the only thing you can do.
And then the emojis? I just like emojis. I think words are terrible, words are so…there’s something nice about emojis, I like them. And I guess some emojis feel really important to me. And uh…. I just think they’re beautiful……..[Laughs]
It’s quite a sincere thing, I just think they’re great [laughs]. The thing about emojis is, it’s obvious there isn’t a literal interpretation, whereas I think with written language, I think people can get the impression that there is a real meaning, and I like that’s not there with emojis.
I wish I could change my artist name to an emoji. Honestly, not ironically. But it’s that thing of it being confusing to people. Which is a shame.
Originally, I went under my own name because I had an account and I just posted stuff. But there’s a few records that I’ve recorded over the past few years that are not really in the style of the things I’ve released. There’s a whole world of personalities. Is it useful to say they’re all ‘you’ or do you do the pseudonym thing? I think there’s lots of different creative selves in a person. And that’s cool, to have these different characters in the work.
So maybe that’s the thing to do with digital culture.
Jack
Yeah, pluralised identity is such a big part of digital culture. You’re using different pseudonyms and usernames all the time. I feel like I talk differently on Facebook than I do on Instagram, for example. And that does enter the creative process, I think.
Alex
I think a lot about these questions when I’m at the Gym [Laughs]. That’s the real philosophical place.
Jack
I mean, was Sisyphus not practically at the Gym?
Alex
Well exactly. There’s different selves at the Gym as well. There’s you before you’ve lifted something, you while you’re lifting something and you after you’ve lifted something. That’s the best part of the Gym- what it does to your mind? Crazy. Picking up a rock does make you happy.
Jack
You’re having to design a board game. The Alex Rushfirth board game. What are the rules, what is it similar too, how do you win.
Alex
It’s really funny that you’re asking this. It’s not quite a board game. I’m designing a game [laughs]. I’m spending a week off doing music to design and code a game.
So, it’s…a football simulator. I haven’t fully worked out the hard sell of it, but it’s been a joy to work on. It’s a bit like D&D…I’m gonna ask friends to each create a team with a mascot and an identity, and create some players, then give the players a ‘How good they are’, whatever. Then I’ve built this stupidly complicated algorithmic structure and it’s going to be like fantasy football, but the entire league is made up. It’s all simulated, like how many goals, how many red cards [laughs]. But it’s just a bit of fun. That is the game that I would make.
Jack
Are you big into football then in your daily life?
Alex
Yeah, I used to be into foreign movies and art house films, and then I realised that just watching football is better and like, way more abstract [laughs]. I don’t play football, but I like watching it as a neutral, and enjoying it as an aesthetic narrative making machine.
Jack
We’re so alike. When people ask me if I like sports I’d say, “Well I’m not into it into it, but I love the mechanics- and it’s a bit like pro wrestling- it’s not about the wrestling, it’s about the drama happening on screen” [laughs].
Alex
It’s like Pro-wrestling if the players were emojis. It’s so abstract. It’s so good; it’s so emotional. It’s an art form. It’s a brilliant art form. There is so many times where I’ve thought about writing about football and aesthetics. Because, watching football for me is just so artistic, I like the fact that it’s seen as low brow and totally removed from criticism and intellect and people talking about it in an artistic way. I think it’s saved it as an art- it elevates it as an art form, because it’s not pretentious. It’s like improvised theatre mixed with ballet, that’s like an action movie, all in one. Whilst simultaneously, it’s a narrative machine that’s effectively, in it’s history, been going on for a hundred and fifty years. There’s so many things going. It’s so insane as an arts project.
I guess the Alex Rushfirth board game is an exploration of that. A narrative making machine, which is data points as well.
Jack
Any Youtube channels you’re obsessed with at the moment?
Alex
I stopped having a Youtube account 5 years ago. But I don’t like the idea of being locked in one place. So I have Youtube logged out. Which basically means you get premium Normie content; it’s almost brain-drainingly Normie.
So Youtube… I guess Sky Sports?
Jack
Sky Sports is your Youtube?
Alex
Yeah, but just like the match highlights.
Jack
Great, that was as obtuse of an answer as I could have expected.
Jack
So this is your space, what do you have to tell us?
Alex
I’m hopefully going to be playing some gigs. I’m trying to organise some stuff.
I’m recording a new record, which I think is going to be the actual record. The thing that’s actually going to be released. I think I’ve got two tracks now that I’m like, ‘They’re definitely in’, and it takes a lot for a track to be definitely in, so I’m feeling positive about that.
If someone wants to listen to any of my music, there’s enough stuff to find the particular vibe for where you’re at. I’ll always just be making music about where I’m at in my life.
I guess for people who haven’t heard anything, the last album is probably the best entry point.
Jack
What track are you most proud of with that last album?
Alex
I think ‘Princess Nokofia’ is the best track on that album. That’s the reason I put it first.
It’s really interesting-, that was the week when I was doing the ‘football hooligan’ album. A noise record, that has a football hooligan screaming over it. I did a 10 track album in 3 days: really in the zone, completely out of myself. And then the day after I played guitar all day and ‘Princess Nokofia’ came out of that. It came pretty much fully formed, out of the purge of this awful, completely other thing. After I finished it, I was like, ‘If I never write a better song that in my entirely life I’ll be happy’.
Jack
I would also put forward ‘Sparkling Heart’, but that’s because I really like hyper pop and AG Cook.I think it has this really nice middle point between the singer-songwriter stuff you do and the more contemporary pop angle. I dunno, it’s so chipper, it’s almost kitchy, but its so genuine too: it’s so lovely.
Alex
I think that making something that makes yourself look kind of cringe in that kitchyness, I think that’s nice. Not because publicly you wanna be the cringest singer-songwriter. Just do yourself and be like, ‘No, it’s okay, I can be genuine’. It’s a genuine heartfelt kitchyness. The first record I ever owned was an ‘S Club 7 Record’, and I realised, I’m just trying to make the ‘S Club Seven’ record again [laughs]. The feeling you have when you’re fine, and just listening to ‘S Club 7’, and really vibing too it. And whatever comes out that’s fine.
Rip the guy who died in ‘S Club 7’. I think he was called Paul?
Jack
Would you like to dedicate this writing to Paul from ‘S Club 7’?
Alex
Uh…yeah-Yeah! But in a sincere way. I don’t know how much he had to do with the record, but he was a part of that, and it inspired me.
This interview is dedicated to
Paul Cattermole
1977-2023
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BANDCAMP: Alex Rushfirth
LINKS: AR0
THE RUDDER: malware. [23/07/23]
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Jack 28/07/23
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